Where you see ‘humility’, I see a politician trying to avoid saying anything that might lose him votes.
No surprise there!
Yeah, according to McCain, you’d need a couple of more seconds before it became a ‘Child’.
Obama? Seems he thinks it would not be a child until it was born, either that or he advocates murder (which I don’t believe he does!) for the sake of convenience.
If you’re referring to the Saddleback forum, like I think you are, then you’re misquoting Rick Warren’s question. He didn’t ask about when life begins or when it becomes a child (questions that hardly anyone disagrees about). He asked when human rights begin … a very different and appropriate question.
Obama said: “I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.” He added that he supports the landmark decision Roe vs. Wade but said the issue has “moral and ethical content” and stressed his commitment to reducing the number of abortions.
I agree with what McCain said, that human rights should begin at the moment of conception. But I was pretty disappointed by his answer … no thought, no reasoning, no explanation, just a party-line-following parroting in front of a friendly audience. Pretty lame. This issue is much more complex … and I want a leader who actually thinks and cares.
Obama and the word humble in the same sentence? Hah! What a LAUGH!!! The guy came out on the stage tonight and said that he “Humbly accepted the nomination….” Humbly? Before over 80,000 people in a football stadium on a stage designed to look like the Greek acropolis? Give me a break. He has such a “god-complex” it is truly scary. Now he even thinks he is Zeus!
I was very annoyed by the “above my pay grade” comment. I know his stance, you know his stance, he has a record supporting PRO-abortion. Own up to it, don’t wimp out with that kind of comment. If he thinks Evangelicals are wrong on this issue, then have the courage to say so to an evangelical’s face.
Why would McCain have had to “think” when Warren asked him that question. Seems it is something a guy in his position has already thought about and come to a conclusion. If you were asked, would you have to think about it for awhile before you decided one way or the other, or do you already know where you stand on the Pro-Choice / Pro-Life question? Seems like any ‘thinking’ would be simply for show.
Decisiveness is a leadership quality not ‘lameness.’
I’m not so sure, Lori. I understand what you’re saying, but isn’t acceptance just a form of complicity? Take for instance a German from the 40s - what kind of reaction do you suppose they’d get if they were to say “I wasn’t pro-genocide, but I was pro-Hitler” or “but I was a Nazi party member”… and I’m not talking about someone who (somehow) was ignorant of the Nazi regime’s tactics (how that would be possible I’m not sure, b/c they were not exactly subtle about it) - clearly someone who is pro-choice realizes that pregnancies are being terminated.
I see what you’re saying Sarah, and I agree with you. This is a touchy subject with both sides adamant in the fact that they’re right, and I just meant it’s important to take into account individual situations and not lump people who are pro-either way into one category and say they’re all the same.
Personally, I think the opposite of pro-life is pro-death, and not just in a dictionary definition way. Choice is such a wimpy, misleading word. Evangelicals are pro-choice, we just choose life over death.
I would agree with you that many people who call themselves pro-choice are not necessarily pro-abortion. The argument you most often hear is something along the lines of, “I personally don’t find abortion acceptable, but I don’t want to limit it for others”.
But as far as Obama goes, I think you’ll be hard pressed to argue that he’s not pro-abortion. He said of his OWN children, *** “if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby” *** (http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/obamas-baby-comment-draws-fire-from-conservatives-2008-03-31.html).
He’s also argued strongly in favor of partial-birth-abortion, which is basically infanticide (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html). If you have the stomach for it, educate your self on what this involves. You’ll never be the same.
Obama is unapologetic about his pro-abortion position, so I don’t really understand why his supporters continue to try to be apologetic about it for him.
I have read everyone’s opinion on abortion (pro-life vs. pro-choice). Everyone has to take a stand on what they believe. If you believe abortion should be allowed then you are pro-abortion. If you don’t believe it should be allowed then you are anti-abortion. There is no in between here. Only people who are not willing to stand up and say this is what I beleive. In 1776 Americans did not say we’re pro-choice to being American or British. They stood up, and many laid down, and said we are AMERICAN. God, guns and guts made this country what it is, and I believe in all three! Have some guts!
August 28th, 2008 at 2:58 am EST
So I guess you don’t agree with Obama’s take on when life begins?
August 28th, 2008 at 6:54 am EST
Obama’s take is quite nebulous (and humble) … it’s McCain who wouldn’t agree with this childhood photo.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:50 am EST
Where you see ‘humility’, I see a politician trying to avoid saying anything that might lose him votes.
No surprise there!
Yeah, according to McCain, you’d need a couple of more seconds before it became a ‘Child’.
Obama? Seems he thinks it would not be a child until it was born, either that or he advocates murder (which I don’t believe he does!) for the sake of convenience.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:23 pm EST
If you’re referring to the Saddleback forum, like I think you are, then you’re misquoting Rick Warren’s question. He didn’t ask about when life begins or when it becomes a child (questions that hardly anyone disagrees about). He asked when human rights begin … a very different and appropriate question.
I agree with what McCain said, that human rights should begin at the moment of conception. But I was pretty disappointed by his answer … no thought, no reasoning, no explanation, just a party-line-following parroting in front of a friendly audience. Pretty lame. This issue is much more complex … and I want a leader who actually thinks and cares.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm EST
People who actually think and care never get elected. Voters can’t understand them.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:22 pm EST
Obama and the word humble in the same sentence? Hah! What a LAUGH!!! The guy came out on the stage tonight and said that he “Humbly accepted the nomination….” Humbly? Before over 80,000 people in a football stadium on a stage designed to look like the Greek acropolis? Give me a break. He has such a “god-complex” it is truly scary. Now he even thinks he is Zeus!
September 1st, 2008 at 1:44 am EST
I was very annoyed by the “above my pay grade” comment. I know his stance, you know his stance, he has a record supporting PRO-abortion. Own up to it, don’t wimp out with that kind of comment. If he thinks Evangelicals are wrong on this issue, then have the courage to say so to an evangelical’s face.
Why would McCain have had to “think” when Warren asked him that question. Seems it is something a guy in his position has already thought about and come to a conclusion. If you were asked, would you have to think about it for awhile before you decided one way or the other, or do you already know where you stand on the Pro-Choice / Pro-Life question? Seems like any ‘thinking’ would be simply for show.
Decisiveness is a leadership quality not ‘lameness.’
September 1st, 2008 at 12:08 pm EST
Be careful with phrases like “PRO-abortion.” Being pro-choice doesn’t make someone pro-abortion.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:56 pm EST
I’m not so sure, Lori. I understand what you’re saying, but isn’t acceptance just a form of complicity? Take for instance a German from the 40s - what kind of reaction do you suppose they’d get if they were to say “I wasn’t pro-genocide, but I was pro-Hitler” or “but I was a Nazi party member”… and I’m not talking about someone who (somehow) was ignorant of the Nazi regime’s tactics (how that would be possible I’m not sure, b/c they were not exactly subtle about it) - clearly someone who is pro-choice realizes that pregnancies are being terminated.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:08 pm EST
I see what you’re saying Sarah, and I agree with you. This is a touchy subject with both sides adamant in the fact that they’re right, and I just meant it’s important to take into account individual situations and not lump people who are pro-either way into one category and say they’re all the same.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:59 am EST
Personally, I think the opposite of pro-life is pro-death, and not just in a dictionary definition way. Choice is such a wimpy, misleading word. Evangelicals are pro-choice, we just choose life over death.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:09 pm EST
Lori -
I would agree with you that many people who call themselves pro-choice are not necessarily pro-abortion. The argument you most often hear is something along the lines of, “I personally don’t find abortion acceptable, but I don’t want to limit it for others”.
But as far as Obama goes, I think you’ll be hard pressed to argue that he’s not pro-abortion. He said of his OWN children, *** “if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby” *** (http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/obamas-baby-comment-draws-fire-from-conservatives-2008-03-31.html).
He’s also argued strongly in favor of partial-birth-abortion, which is basically infanticide (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html). If you have the stomach for it, educate your self on what this involves. You’ll never be the same.
Obama is unapologetic about his pro-abortion position, so I don’t really understand why his supporters continue to try to be apologetic about it for him.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:54 pm EST
Also, here’s a fantastic post from a Christian blogger that goes into some more details about the other facets of Obama’s position on the issue: http://parablemania.ektopos.com/archives/2008/08/obama-abortion.html
October 1st, 2008 at 8:02 am EST
I have read everyone’s opinion on abortion (pro-life vs. pro-choice). Everyone has to take a stand on what they believe. If you believe abortion should be allowed then you are pro-abortion. If you don’t believe it should be allowed then you are anti-abortion. There is no in between here. Only people who are not willing to stand up and say this is what I beleive. In 1776 Americans did not say we’re pro-choice to being American or British. They stood up, and many laid down, and said we are AMERICAN. God, guns and guts made this country what it is, and I believe in all three! Have some guts!